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| was Cooler's 4th form stronger than Friezas final form? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 23 2011, 04:58 PM (4,242 Views) | |
| Saberoph | Apr 26 2011, 10:07 PM Post #16 |
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Not just that, but when Planet Vegeta was destroyed, Coola was in his fourth form then too, and seemed so calm and relaxed. And from what he know Frieza was in his first for all those years, it gives me reason to believe that he couldn't control his power as much as Coola did imo. |
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Batman Arkham Games Discussion. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/ Q&A With Me. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/ My Broli Idea. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201 Dragon Ball Paramountcy. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/ Intellectual savior of the masses.
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Apr 26 2011, 10:20 PM Post #17 |
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Truth, not to mention Cooler seemed to have the same idea as Goku when it comes to transforming. He was very comfortable in his fourth form. Goku actually had to fight this guy even when he got in "angry" ssj mode, and actually exert all of that super saiyan strength he had. With frieza he took pity and even gave him some energy and a hand up. Frieza is stronger?.... |
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| Saberoph | Apr 26 2011, 10:27 PM Post #18 |
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I doubt Frieza's stronger, Coola wouldn't have been made out to be so strong if he was weaker than Frieza. |
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Batman Arkham Games Discussion. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8487015/1/ Q&A With Me. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8408853/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8410747/1/ Dragon Ball Game Talk 2.0 http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8543860/1/ My Broli Idea. http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8716209&t=8374201 Dragon Ball Paramountcy. http://dbzf.co.uk/topic/8561069/1/ Intellectual savior of the masses.
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| * Psyam | Apr 26 2011, 10:32 PM Post #19 |
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I was saying that the evidence seems to imply Frieza's 4th form is stronger then Cooler's 4th form, not that Frieza's 4th form is stronger then Cooler's 5th form. Cooler could handle his energy better, but that doesn't necessarily mean his 4th form is stronger then Frieza's. Krillin can handle his energy better then the Ginyu Force, who can't even supress or raise their power with the exception of Ginyu, but he was still weaker then them when they fought. Being able to control your energy is not a measure of strength. Edited by Psyam, Apr 26 2011, 10:34 PM.
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Apr 26 2011, 11:10 PM Post #20 |
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Then where did you get confused? I said nothing of the sort. I said prety clearly that coolers fourth form is as comfortable to him as an mssj is to theirs. lets not start accusing people of putting words in others mouths. You should review what i said once more. ???? about Krillin? hes is known amongst the Z-crew as the master ki manipulator, AKA the strongest human, where have you been? Coolers words cant be dissected for interpretation when he spoke pretty clearly about why he had a death ball hovering over goku so quickly. You cant create an argument over words already and clearly spoken. Goku thought he was quick enough and realized he was wrong, thats all. Edited by Paikuan extreme, Apr 26 2011, 11:13 PM.
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| * Psyam | Apr 26 2011, 11:24 PM Post #21 |
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You said Goku had to put effort in as a Super Saiyan against Cooler, which was against Cooler's 5th form, and then compared it to him easily taking Frieza's 4th form as a Super Saiyan. You were comparing 100% Frieza to 5th Form Cooler, which is not relevant to what I was arguing, everyone here knows Cooler's 5th form is stronger then Frieza, so I corrected you in saying that I was not comparing those two, only 4th form Cooler and 4th form Frieza. I'm not putting words in anyone's mouth, merely pointing out what you said was not relevant to what I'm arguing, or this topic. The second part of my post wasn't directed at you, sorry if that wasn't clear. Other people in the topic were using Cooler being able to handle his energy better then Frieza as "proof" he is stronger even in 4th form - I provided a counter-argument in that the fighter who can control his energy better is not necessarily stronger. Krillin Vs Ginyu Force was just one example of many I could bring up. Edited by Psyam, Apr 26 2011, 11:31 PM.
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Apr 26 2011, 11:37 PM Post #22 |
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See youre still trying to pick apart what i said, why are you deliberately taking my sentence out of context and misquoting? What you just stated was something i said towards the end of what i had to say as my statement was culmintaing into my point. Everything i said had to with said subject, please dont pick my words apart. I was clearly able to compare full power frieza against coolers final transformation, unfortunately for your argument that was friezas FINAL transformation not his fourth. So yes comparing how they fought goku at full power is clear with intent, and discovery of exactly who was stronger than who and how much. Not hard to do, its the point in talking about this, you cant have a half point and forget about the rest. All im saying... Edited by Paikuan extreme, Apr 26 2011, 11:37 PM.
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| * Psyam | Apr 26 2011, 11:47 PM Post #23 |
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I responded to the latter part of your post because I really didn't see what you were getting at with the first part apart from Cooler might be able to handle his energy better due to staying in that form more often, and I already answered that energy control means squat with the second part of my post. I didn't need to say anything more. There was no point to you comparing 100% Frieza and Final Form Cooler because this topic is titled "was Cooler's 4th form stronger than Friezas final form?". This topic has nothing to do with 5th Form Cooler. Please stop attacking me by insulting my reading capability's and saying I'm picking your posts apart intentionally. I'm just responding to people's points with my own. Nothing more. |
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Apr 27 2011, 11:29 PM Post #24 |
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Like i said you cant ignore whats right in front of you, i have already stated, yes cooler is stronger than frieza, by far, frieza obviously has no experience in his fourth form while cooler lived in his. I can compare coolers final against friezas final, thats the whole point in the end, cooler HAS a fifth, frieza doesnt. So why wouldnt cooler be stronger? him having a fifth form Proves hes stronger than frieza in his fourth form. You said you didnt pick my words apart and dont accuse you? you clearly havent read what you wrote then because you deliberately and completely tried to turn around what i said as if you and no one else can read what I typed,thtas why i said that. I was simply responding to you, dont make accusations you cant back up and then try to claim being a victim. im just trying to have a conversation here not have what i say taken out of context when i choose my words carefully. Im not trying to offend anyone, but i can be civil and candid. |
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| * Psyam | Apr 28 2011, 04:23 AM Post #25 |
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That doesn't prove Cooler's 4th form is stronger at all. Neither of them seemed to be the type to train, so what form they lived in is irrelevant. They were as strong as they were and if living in his first form actually harmed his power development over time I doubt Frieza would of continued to stay in that form. Furthermore Frieza was easily in control of his final form against Goku so it's really not an issue. Having an extra transformation doesn't "prove" his earlier forms are stronger at all. Never is that stated or even suggested in the entire course of the film. It is entirely your own opinion and has no factual backing, therefore it's a null point unless you can prove it. Turned around what you said? ...What? You said two things, one, that Cooler was very comfortable in his 4th form, and that was all you said for that, you didn't state how that might be beneficial in your first post. So I simply left it and responded to the second part of your post which didn't harm the first part of your post at all, because I didn't see what you were getting at with the first part until later when you explained it. I haven't done anything wrong, and I have backed up my opinion with hard facts, whereas all you've given is pure conjecture. Basically from what I've gathered so far, all you have to back up Cooler's 4th form being stronger is in a nutshell "He has an extra form so his previous form must be stronger" and "He was more comfortable/used to his 4th form then Frieza", while I have actual evidence from their battles backing me up. Base Goku was BEATING 4th form Cooler. Goku got DESTROYED by Frieza. He never would of done that to Frieza's final form, even as his Movie 5 self, which would not of been that much stronger then when he was on Namek. Not enough to bridge the gap between his and Frieza's power without Super Saiyan. I've also already put forward quotes from both the Japanese and English dubs that support Frieza having the stronger 4th form. In the Japanese dub Goku only said Cooler was even stronger then Frieza AFTER he transformed, which suggests quite strongly that until Cooler went into his 5th form he was not stronger then Frieza, and in the English Dub Cooler himself says that Frieza was stronger then him until he got his 5th form. If you want to continue this then stop saying I'm ignoring what's in front of me and start disproving what I'm saying. That's how debates work. Otherwise your arguments are pointless. And yes I split your post up here, but it was just so you could read the replys to each part easier, and it didn't harm your post at all. |
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